Earnings Labs

American Express Company (AXP)

Q2 2017 Earnings Call· Wed, Jul 19, 2017

$315.23

-0.21%

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Transcript

Operator

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by and welcome to the American Express Second Quarter 2017 Earnings Call. At this time, all lines are in a listen-only mode. Later, there will be an opportunity for your questions and instructions will be given at that time. [Operator Instructions] And as a reminder, today's call is being recorded. I would now turn the conference over to our host Vice President, Investor Relations, Toby Willard. Please go ahead, sir.

Toby Willard

Analyst · Evercore ISI. Please go ahead

Thanks, Cathy. Welcome. We appreciate all of you joining us for today's call. The discussion contains certain forward-looking statements about the Company's future financial performance and business prospects, which are based on management's current expectations and are subject to risks and uncertainties. Factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from these forward-looking statements are set forth within today's presentation slides and in the Company's reports on file with the Securities and Exchange Commission. The discussion today also contains certain non-GAAP financial measures. Information relating to comparable GAAP financial measures may be found in the second quarter 2017 earnings release and presentation slides, as well as the earnings materials for prior periods that maybe discussed, all of which are posted on our website at ir.americanexpress.com. We encourage you to review that information in conjunction with today's discussion. Today's discussion will begin with Jeff Campbell, Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer, who will review some key points related to quarter's results through the series of presentation slides. Once Jeff completes his remarks, we will move to a Q&A session. With that, let me turn the discussion over to Jeff.

Jeff Campbell

Analyst

Well, thanks, Toby, and good afternoon, everyone. Earlier today, we published our second quarter results and with our earnings per share for Q2 at a $1.47, and with adjusted revenue growth for 2Q of 8%. We believe that our results continue to reflect solid progress against our priorities, laid out again on Slide 2, accelerating revenue growth, optimizing investments and resetting the cost base. Since early 2015, we have made many changes to the company and have been investing in a broad set of growth opportunities generated by our unique business model. As we have made these changes, we have always thought to balance the short, medium and long term. We are certainly encouraged by our current revenue performance and the near term payoff we are getting from our actions. But to be clear, we are making decisions and generating sustainable revenue growth and we've remained focused for the years beyond 2017 on the 6% revenue growth scenario that we shared at our Investor Day in March. In addition, we are clearly seeing the benefits of our cost reduction efforts and continue to return significant amounts of capital to shareholders through our dividend and share buyback programs. Our efforts across these areas are driving the simple model we have shared over the last couple of years. We have a diverse range in growth businesses as a business model that provides steady operating leverage plus a balance sheet that shows tremendous capital strength all of which contribute to steady EPS growth. Now, I know our numbers have been difficult to interpret over the past two years of repositioning the company, but Q2 does mark the end of the need for the quarterly adjustments we have sharing with your comparison purposes since the beginning of 2016. I know we are all looking…

Toby Willard

Analyst · Evercore ISI. Please go ahead

Thank you, Jeff. Before we open up the lines for Q&A, I will ask those in the queue to please limit yourself to just one question. Thank you for your cooperation. And with that the operator will now open up the line for questions. Cathy?

Operator

Operator

Thank you. [Operator Instructions] And our first question will come from Ken Bruce with Bank of America. Go ahead please.

Ken Bruce

Analyst · Bank of America. Go ahead please

Thank you. Good evening. One clarification if I could and it relates to card fees in some of the value prop subset already in the market. I guess you had mentioned that you get card fees they were up nicely in the quarter, but that is not benefiting from the increase in platinum card fees which is later this year, are we looking at some of the costs already being included in the expense side of the equation. Related to that, I guess I just want to make sure we understand the timing of the revenues versus expenses on that particular platform?

Jeffrey Campbell

Analyst · Bank of America. Go ahead please

Yeah, it's a good question Ken. So to remind everyone on the business and consumer platinum products, we made some changes in the latter part of 2016, and then on the consumer product, we offered a further range of benefit enhancements that went in at the end of the first quarter of this year. So all of the costs associated with the significantly higher Card Member engagement that those changes are driving are what you see reflected in our results can really the last two quarters and are key part of what is driving a little higher rewards cost and a little higher Card Member services costs. As I said in my remarks, on the Consumer Card where we did include a fee increase, existing card members don't actually pay that until renewals begin in September. So the increase in fee revenue will lack to your point the increase in costs, we think that's an important way to do this. So customers have a sense of what the enhanced values are at the time that they see the higher fees. As you know we have a long track record of every couple of years with all of our products doing these kinds of upgrades and changes to the value propositions, which are often accompanied by a fee increase. So we think we have a pretty thoughtful approach to this. I guess the last comment I would make is, we've not only been pleased with the increased engagement with our existing card members, but with both the business product and the consumer product, we've been very pleased with the significant increase in new card member acquisitions. And on the consumer side, those new card members of course do pay the higher fee right from day one. Totally can that helps clear up exactly what's in and not in the results so far.

Ken Bruce

Analyst · Bank of America. Go ahead please

Thank you. I'll jump back in queue.

Operator

Operator

Thank you. Our next question will come from Ryan Nash with Goldman Sachs. Please go ahead.

Ryan Nash

Analyst · Goldman Sachs. Please go ahead

Hey good evening, Jeff.

Jeffrey Campbell

Analyst · Goldman Sachs. Please go ahead

Hi, Ryan.

Ryan Nash

Analyst · Goldman Sachs. Please go ahead

Jeff, I'm just wondering maybe two quick things, one I think in you Investor Day you talked about improving EPS each quarter throughout the year, I know there could be some timing around certain investments, but do you still feel confident in that? And then I guess just related to that you're now saying revenue growth above the high end, your tax rate is going to be lower, so I know you had mentioned selectively reinvesting, so can you just maybe talk about the decision between allowing the incremental revenue hit the bottom line versus where you may potentially reinvest some of the stronger revenue? Thanks.

Jeffrey Campbell

Analyst · Goldman Sachs. Please go ahead

Yeah, so there's a couple of good questions there Ryan. I think first on EPS progression, certainly we are pleased with the first half that we have had. And so I would probably not reaffirm those statements about EPS progression, the point I would make if you have the first two quarters of EPS and you have our full year guidance. So I do think it's important as I say that to point out that we're only halfway through the year. Just like everyone else, we would sort of like to see next quarter's clean comparisons before we think about an updated view on the full year. And there are some reasons that I talked about in my remarks around growth in yield at some points slowing that cause us to want to see one more quarter before we adjust what we see for the year. And to your point, we always are thinking about how we balance the financial commitments we have which we take very seriously in the short term with the opportunities we see to invest and build for the longer term. And even in the first half of the year, we have selectively chosen to spend a little bit more a couple of things in the M&P line than we had originally intended this year, because we're very pleased with revenue growth, we're very pleased with our progress on the cost reduction efforts and we could do those things while still being remaining very consistent to the earnings commitments that we've made to our shareholders. So you know we'll have to see as we get into the quarter, we're now 19 days into exactly what all that means for the rest of the year, but clearly we're off to a stronger start than we expected. We feel really good about the revenue growth and all the efforts that we have underway and we will as always balance the short term and the long term as we make decisions in the next six months.

Ryan Nash

Analyst · Goldman Sachs. Please go ahead

Got it. Thanks for taking my question.

Jeffrey Campbell

Analyst · Goldman Sachs. Please go ahead

Thanks Ryan.

Operator

Operator

Thank you. We'll go next to Sanjay Sakhrani with KBW. Please go ahead.

Sanjay Sakhrani

Analyst · KBW. Please go ahead

Thanks. I guess just when we think about that revenue growth for the second half, Jeff, as you look forward, you mentioned there might be some moderation, I mean is that the running expectation that you have, I mean what is the swing factor that will either sort of drive us better than what you're anticipating versus not, because we kind of know what the impact of the yield part is, if it stays constant. And then when we're thinking about spending more than what was planned, I mean where exactly do you see the opportunities, is it in some of the areas where your competitors are kind of retrenching some, and you could take back share? Thanks.

Jeffrey Campbell

Analyst · KBW. Please go ahead

So lot of good questions here. Sanjay, sure I'll make a few comments. First, my comments about revenue growth and the 8% you see in Q2, we're really meant to point out that there's two things that in particular are helping us right now, and that's the very strong sequential growth you've seen in yields, and all of the drivers of that growth we think will sustain themselves in terms of the absolute level of yield you see today. But you know we can't keep raising prices for example forever, so there's some moderation I'd expect in the year-over-year growth in the yield going forward. Clearly, we made some significant investments and this is really the point that Ken was asking about in the first question. We made some significant investments in the U.S. on both the business platinum and the consumer platinum card and that is really driving a really nice result in terms of increased Card Member engagement. The effects of - the economics effects of that to can question well play out over a longer time period that the fee increase benefits you actually won't begin to see until you get into the latter part of the year. All that said, I would expect there is some stabilization if you will of the growth rate driven by all of those changes as we go into future quarters. So for all of those reasons Sanjay for now, as we look at the low GDP growth, low inflation environment we're in, as we look around the globe at the range of competitive and regulatory issues we face, as I go beyond 2017, we're going to drive revenue growth as much as we can, but the target that I'm trying to communicate we are still focused on is that 6% level as you get beyond 2017 for the reasons I just described. Your last question about selectively reinvesting as we look at our stronger performance. The great thing about the growth we're seeing right now is, it is very broad across almost all of our customer in geographic segments with the exception probably of the large and global corporate segment which is not as we've said for some time, particularly growing segment right now. So the modest amount of reinvestment done is spread across almost every geography and every customer segment. And sure we are always trying to be responsive to changes in the competitive environment. On the other hand, we run the company for the long term, we try to build long term customer relationships and we're a little cautious sometimes about reacting overly short term to any one particular move by competitor. So hopefully that covers the waterfront there Sanjay.

Sanjay Sakhrani

Analyst · KBW. Please go ahead

Thanks.

Operator

Operator

Thank you. Our next question comes from Mark DeVries with Barclays. Please go ahead.

Mark DeVries

Analyst · Barclays. Please go ahead

Yeah, thanks. Jeff, you've indicated you still see a very long runway for growth - for loan growth that is particularly with existing customers. Can you help us think out through in a little more detail, I mean how much of the growth is coming from what you might consider lower hanging fruit and how much more challenging does that become as you know grabbing that growth as time passes?

Jeffrey Campbell

Analyst · Barclays. Please go ahead

You know Mark, as you've heard a number of a say, for a while the track record we now have for several years of growing a little bit faster than the industry while still retaining best in class credit metrics. That's not a new thing. The track record is now there for several years. And despite that as you know with our consumer customers and also for our commercial customers, we capture a far smaller share of their borrowing behaviors and we do of their spending behaviors. And that gives us we think a rather unique opportunity relative to most of our competitors to tap into people we know really well, our existing customers and try to develop the right products, the right pricing, right marketing to get a little bit greater share of their borrowing behaviors. And yet despite several years of doing that when you actually just look at the math, our share of their borrowing behaviors has gone up a couple of points and in the consumer world in the U.S. for example, we still probably have double the share of a customer spend behavior that we do with their borrowing behaviors. So when you run the math out on there is just a long, long run way to continue to do all this. And now you know we grow our lending both to the existing customers and by being lot more focused on acquiring new customers who want to engage in some level of borrowing. But as you look at recent quarters, we've driven over half of our loan growth from our existing customers and it's that dynamic could makes us believe we have such a long runway to continue to grow little faster than the industry while retaining really good credit quality.

Mark DeVries

Analyst · Barclays. Please go ahead

Okay, thanks.

Jeffrey Campbell

Analyst · Barclays. Please go ahead

Thank you, Mark.

Operator

Operator

Thank you. Our next question comes from Craig Maurer with Autonomous. Please go ahead.

Craig Maurer

Analyst · Autonomous. Please go ahead

Yeah, hi Jeff. Thanks for taking my question. So first question, I just wanted your thoughts on the new surcharging ban that was introduced in the UK that will go into effect next year. How that - how you believe surcharging has been impacting your ability to grow volumes in the UK? And then just is your charge off guidance still consistent with the 15 basis points to 25 basis points year-on-year for 2017 that you've discussed earlier? Thanks.

Jeffrey Campbell

Analyst · Autonomous. Please go ahead

Craig, you obviously very timing sense, the UK ruling came out just say a look. We as a company have been on record for a long time all over the globe that we have a strong view that surcharging is a very consumer unfriendly thing and people who understand what they're paying for a product to is a transact with a merchant and as you would know, but others may not have hit time. Look at today, if you look at the ruling that the UK government has come out with and if you look at the press coverage of it and you look at some of the groups were commenting on it, it is very much being taken and being seen as a pro consumer action. So that to us is a really positive step in the UK. There are many other countries across Europe that are in the midst of debates about what to do about surcharging. The way - as you know there's great complexity and the interplay between the EU payment rules and what then gets translated in each country, but certainly we would hope that the UK actions are emulated in many other countries. It's a good thing for the consumer long term and we think it's a good thing for us. I would say Craig, I don't know the today it has had a material impact on our ability to continue to grow our business. As you know, the UK has been one of our strongest markets. This quarter I cited its growth again being at 15% in terms of volumes and it's been growing at those kind of levels quite some time. But over the longer term, we think this is just good policy and is helpful to us as well. In terms of charge offs, I am - I think we've remained very comfortable that what we're seeing on the credit side is right within the balance of what we would have expected given the growth we're seeing in lending. We do not see any signs of a broader economic change that is causing any change in the credit. Profile side, I would say we are performing exactly as I would have expected. We are growing loans a little faster than we had in the original plan. And so that will also drive overtime a little higher mix of new accounts going through a seasoning process. So I think our real focus is making sure we stay with best in class metrics and we grow lending at good economics within the plan ranges we have, because our goal is to grow lending as fast as we can. Within that I might be cautious about guiding you to a specific number on write-offs, but I would just say we feel really good about where we are today.

Craig Maurer

Analyst · Autonomous. Please go ahead

Thank you.

Operator

Operator

Thank you. Our next question will come from Bob Napoli with William Blair. Please go ahead.

Bob Napoli

Analyst · William Blair. Please go ahead

Thank you. Just the rewards competition, suggested - Steve Squeri suggested and so did David norms at recent conference that they thought that the rewards competition had peaked, I know obviously in aggressive level, but seem to a peak. I just wondered if you - if you're seeing that still month and a half, months, month and a half later, if you feel that's the case or not? And just also just on a cost base, how close are you to being done with the moves you need to make to hit the $1 billion?

Jeffrey Campbell

Analyst · William Blair. Please go ahead

Let me take those in turn Bob. I guess on rewards, I would say well gosh, I hope that Steve and David are correct. But look we don't run the company making any assumption other than it's going to be continue to be a very competitive environment. We're going to continue to have to innovate and find new ways to offer value to our customers. And look you know the value enhancements we did with platinum were significant. They're being very well received by customers in driving just the kind of increased engagement and increase new Card Member acquisition that we wanted. But we will continue to follow the competitive environment and continue to make sure that we offer great value propositions relative to what others put in the market. Always mindful of the fact that we have some very unique and differentiated assets to offer and we're always going to focus on trying to leverage those as opposed to the things that are perhaps most easily replicated. On the cost question, look it's July 19th so we have I would say 100% of our plans clearly in hand well laid out. They are not all executed, but they are all partially executed and we're working towards being done with all of those things as we get into the latter part of this year. So at this point, I'm very confident in our ability to get more than a $1 billion of growth cost out of the company. As I did say in our remarks that progress combined with the revenue performance is allowing us to reinvest in a few areas those savings. So for example, we are doing some things with our call centers to drive more revenue in new Card Members that have been extremely successful for us and frankly the savings we've generated elsewhere in the way we run our call centers have allowed us to do those kinds of things. And of course there is always things that I try not to talk about on calls like. We also have to cover with these cost savings. And my favorite so far this year that is the $60 million or $70 million of hedge and effectiveness started though we've taken thus far this year. Really I try not take about that stuff because that's why we're taking a billion dollars out of the cost structure. So you don't particularly notice the increases that come from things like that. So I feel good about our progress, but to be clear, there is work to do but is just execution, it's not gee we still need to find another $100 million. It's very clearly in ourselves.

Bob Napoli

Analyst · William Blair. Please go ahead

Great, thank you. Thanks Jeff.

Operator

Operator

Thank you. We'll go next to Rick Shane with JP Morgan. Go ahead please.

Rick Shane

Analyst · JP Morgan. Go ahead please

Thanks for taking my question. Look, one of the unique growth drivers here is the wallet share gains in terms of getting your existing customers to borrow. Two questions relating to that in both credit, how do you prevent adverse selection when you are offering a customer who's been offered the opportunity to pay overtime for years? How do you know that you are not getting sort of picked off at exactly the wrong time to make a loan that customer who said no before?

Jeffrey Campbell

Analyst · JP Morgan. Go ahead please

Well, Rick, you know it's a good question and one we think a lot about in many ways I would point to our track record which is several years of steadily growing above the industry will still retaining by far the best in class credit metrics. How do you do that? Well you do that by focusing on your existing customer base to a great extend where we know our customers extremely well and we know a lot about them and have a strong ability to make the kind of judgments you are pointing out we have to make. We do it by we believe having best in class data efforts that both involve the way we use our own data, the way we use every bit of data across the industry and we combine it with what we think are best in class data science experts and efforts to be really thoughtful. Do we get right 100% of the time? No, we don't. But do we get it right enough for the time so that we are able to retain best in class credit metrics? Absolutely. And look, we are very mindful of the broader environment and what all of our competitors are and are not doing. And I would say we are constantly evolving our tactics in this area a very real time as we see other things happening in the industry with our competitors with the economy.

Rick Shane

Analyst · JP Morgan. Go ahead please

And Jeff, did those loans season in same way that a de novo customer does?

Jeffrey Campbell

Analyst · JP Morgan. Go ahead please

No. So you certainly see different behavioral patterns as you take on a brand new customer versus as we grew lending balances with existing customers. Then there can still to your point be a seasoning process but they follow different patterns which we of course track based on our historical experiences.

Rick Shane

Analyst · JP Morgan. Go ahead please

Thank you.

Jeffrey Campbell

Analyst · JP Morgan. Go ahead please

Yep, thanks Rick.

Operator

Operator

Thank you. We now have a question from Chris Donat from Sandler O'Neill. Go ahead please.

Chris Donat

Analyst · Sandler O'Neill. Go ahead please

Thanks for taking my question Jeff. I wanted just to go back to the Card Member services because as we look back historically thinking about Card Member services is a percentage of discount revenue, it's been growing, seems like it should be growing more as you lay around the Uber credit baggage some of the Delta co-brand changes more the Centurion lounges. I am just wondering should we be thinking about that as a - that line for Card Member service is really as a percentage of discount revenue or are you getting more kind of fixed fees in there with the lounges? A little bit of guidance on that.

Jeffrey Campbell

Analyst · Sandler O'Neill. Go ahead please

It's a good question. We've made a conscious pivot I would say to even more than we have historically on our value propositions emphasis the things that are hard for others to replicate and a lot build on our scale, our global reach, our brand. And so the lounge access is a great example of that. We have to scale to both build our own Centurion lounges as well as collect an unequalled amount of access to lots of other lounges around the globe and that is high valued by our Card Members. And all that runs to cost of Card Member services and as you should goes up, it drives the cost up. The Uber benefit is another great example. In many ways Chris, the reason why starting I think back at Investor Day, I began to talk collectively about our marketing and promotional rewards and cost of Card Member cost is because it is important that people realize that we think of those as three tools we are using to drive more revenue. And particularly right now, the fastest growing in terms of - in percentage terms, fastest growing tool is cost of Card Member services and I'd expect it will stay that way because of this pivot to really want to emphasis the things we can do uniquely. I think it's a little tricky to, so most of those things are not going to be directly tied in any ways to billing or discount revenue. The way we think of it is you are creating an overall value proposition for your customer that's why we feel really good about our fee revenue increases continuing because it's those kind of experiences whatever the point proposition is that we have to make really appealing to our customers to build loyalty overtime. So that may not be as helpful as you would like in terms of how you might model this, but that's really how we think about the things that are appearing in that line from a business perspective.

Chris Donat

Analyst · Sandler O'Neill. Go ahead please

That's helpful. And just if I can tag on that, anything on that - any surprising seasonality we should be thinking about there that I don't know baggage fees increase in one quarter or?

Jeffrey Campbell

Analyst · Sandler O'Neill. Go ahead please

No, no, that one there really shouldn't be any particular seasonality in.

Chris Donat

Analyst · Sandler O'Neill. Go ahead please

Got it. Thanks Jeff.

Jeffrey Campbell

Analyst · Sandler O'Neill. Go ahead please

Thanks Chris.

Operator

Operator

Thank you. Our next question is from David Togut with Evercore ISI. Please go ahead.

Jeffrey Campbell

Analyst · Evercore ISI. Please go ahead

Hey David.

David Togut

Analyst · Evercore ISI. Please go ahead

Thanks for taking my question, Jeff. Question about the regulatory environment in Europe which you referenced in your comments on the call. How are you positioning American Express to win in environment under PSD2 regulation where we start to ACH based ecommerce payments in Europe within the next couple of years? You know Visa is leaving its options open. MasterCard just buy VocaLink, so I am curious what your strategy is?

Jeffrey Campbell

Analyst · Evercore ISI. Please go ahead

Well, boy, very good and large question. David that I could probably spend another hour taking about, but let me maybe just make a few comments. Clearly Europe is a heavily regulated market that regulation is evolving and regulation evolves in way that aren't always crystal clear. What we do have is a unique business model that gives us a lot of flexibility in terms of how we think about the best way to create value for merchants, who we have to directly negotiate with and convince to accept our card and to their fees and directly create value propositions with Card Members that they will continue to use even in light of all the other changes that to your point are likely to happen in that marketplace. In some ways if you look at our results in Europe the last few quarters in place like the UK, we have seen tremendous growth with some of the changes drive elsewhere in the market with various aspects of the payment service directly. But it's a long game here and I think there are many chapters still to play out. You will see us evolve our business. You will see a significant reductions in coming quarters in the network aspect of our business in Europe which is a small part of our company, it's 10% of our European business which is 10% of our company. So it's 1% or 2% of billings. But you will see that's really significantly reduce that business in response to somebody evolving regulation. And obviously our opportunity and challenge as we do that is in fact to recapture a good chunk of that business on our proprietary network, which at times can actually generate more profits than we see on the network business. So as always we are focused on, how do we use our unique business model, our unique brand in assets to create value propositions for both merchants and for Card Members that are very different from what others can offer? And in many ways I actually think it's complicated as it is. The European payment regulations as they evolve may well provide us new opportunities because we're so different from everybody else. But we'll have to see as time goes by.

David Togut

Analyst · Evercore ISI. Please go ahead

Understood, thanks.

Toby Willard

Analyst · Evercore ISI. Please go ahead

And Cathy, we have time for one more question.

Operator

Operator

Thank you. And that will come from James Freedman with Susquehanna Financial. Go ahead please.

James Freedman

Analyst · Susquehanna Financial. Go ahead please

Hi. Thanks for just taking me into, I have just a quick question Jeff, at the Analyst Day on March 8 you had or Anre had an update about OptBlue, I was just wondering you make any comments tonight about that, but where are we in that journey we closer to the middle of the beginning or the end, how we should think about the contribution to growth things like that? Thank you.

Jeffrey Campbell

Analyst · Susquehanna Financial. Go ahead please

Yeah, it's a good question James, and I probably should have mentioned it in my remarks. We're in the middle of the game, so we've been clear for a while that we have the company very focused on getting to parity coverage in the U.S. by 2019. We are really pleased now to have all of the large merchant acquirers in the U.S. involved in the program. I would point out to you that the last of the larger ones have come on fairly recently to the program, and it just takes time given the nature of how the acquirers work with small merchants to cycle across the many, many hundreds of thousands and in fact millions of merchants that we need to cycle across year. But we're making good progress and we remain very focused on our 2019 goal. As you've heard me say this is a really important goal for the company for the long term. But it is a long term goal. And you know first we have to get to parity then we have to really change perceptions amongst our customers. Those are long, long game. And I don't think if you look at our financial results today that you see a material upside. Today, when you just do the simple math of we have a lot more small merchants than we used to, we get business from those small merchants and that incremental or the revenues we get from that incremental business more than cover the lesser overall amount of economics for getting from all small merchants as we put them on OptBlue, so that's a net positive. But the real game here is about once we get to parity and once we change perceptions, it's about getting a greater share of wallet because of that and it's about having an ability to be more efficient in our New Card member acquisitions, because of this. And I think we're still a couple of years away from seeing in a really material way the benefits from that. So thank you for the question.

Toby Willard

Analyst · Susquehanna Financial. Go ahead please

Thanks everybody for joining tonight's call, and thank you for your continued interest in American Express. Cathy, back to you.

Operator

Operator

Thank you. And ladies and gentlemen that does conclude our conference for today. Thank you for your participation and using AT&T Executive Teleconference. You may now disconnect.