John Butler
Chief Executive Officer
Great. That's a great list, Julian. Thanks. Expectations for growth first in Vafseo. We're not guiding for revenue. I'll start with that. I mean, I think it's, you know, again, when you're in a launch, particularly in this dialysis market, if you saw last year, you know, we certainly, I certainly expected that dialysis providers would latch on to the opportunities around TDAPA more quickly, and, you know, we certainly didn't anticipate the issues we had with adherence. You know, we're certainly dealing with those, as I said, you know, very much head-on. I think the way to think about it is, kind of forget the inventory fluctuations. You know, we give you the demand number, you know, and really think about that, right? I mean, demand basically has been flat. We had $12 million in the third quarter, $11 million in the fourth quarter, and it was actually $12 million in the second quarter as well, right? You know, we absolutely expect and are seeing growth from that level. You know, exactly how quickly that will increase, I think, you know, some people are kind of looking for this sort of magical hockey stick. You know, when I think about launches that I've been a part of in this market, that didn't have the complexity of the dialysis provider in between, I mean, I go way back in time to Sevelimer, you know, Renagel launch. We did $20 million in the first year, $55 million in the second year, $130 million or something in the third year. Ultimately, it was a $1.3 billion product, right? Nephrologists don't adopt products like oncologists, right? You know, you definitely have a more measured growth. I think that's what we're seeing here as well, particularly, I think, as you look at DaVita, where, you know, DaVita's made the product available, but aren't, you know, sending out lists to physicians of patients that have reimbursement. They're leaving it to the physician to make the decision. That's fine. That's on our field teams to sell and educate physicians about the benefits. You know, it's things like the data from VOICE. You look at the data from the ASN meeting last year, it's super important data, right? Will make a huge impact, it's not published yet, right? It's been submitted for publication. It's just been presented at ASN. Our medical affairs folks can't educate physicians with that data until there's a reprint, you know, in publication, peer-reviewed, which we expect is gonna happen this year. You know, the same thing will be the case with the with the cost analysis that's being presented this weekend. You have to get those things published. I think you'll see the same with VOICE and VOCAL as well. As these things are published, available, and our sales and medical affairs folks can use them, these are the things that influence utilization and physicians. I've never been more confident that the data that we're generating supports that managing anemia with a HIF-PHI, and the only one that's available is Vafseo, is going to be standard of care for this patient population. It really is just a question of how quickly that happens. You know, we're seeing growth now, we're confident in that growth, but, you know, we're not in a place where we want to guide around that. We want to see it continue to move in the direction that it's moving now. Maybe, Nick, you can talk more about operationalizing at DaVita?