Rick Gonzalez
Analyst · UBS
Yeah. As it relates to the debate that's ongoing about affordability of healthcare and affordability of medicines. It certainly is obvious to everyone that there is a very significant debate that is ongoing here. I think fundamentally comes back to having patients have access to the medicines that they need and making sure that those medicines are priced in a range where they are affordable and they are justified based on the pharmacoeconomics of those particular agents. We should hope it will get to that debate. I think eventually it will get to that debate. And so as you look at patients ability to be able to access medicines. I think it's important to think about it in the backdrop of where is the challenge in that. I would tell you as an example, and I don't think we're unusual, but we have a very extensive patient assistance program and that program actually allows patients up to 600% of poverty, which I think is around $150,000 a year worth of income for a family of four somewhere thereabouts, that in the event they can't afford their medicines, they can come to us and we obviously will provide the medicine even free of charge and we provide a significant amount of medicine to those patients. Those programs are available to commercially insured patients, to uninsured patients, and therefore, there shouldn't be a patient that falls into that category. It doesn't have access to an AbbVie medicine regardless of their ability to be able to pay. Now do people fall through the net and they don't realize it. We are looking into that and we may actually do some additional awareness campaigns to make sure patients understand how to be able to access that that program. But I can tell you we have pretty broad coverage of that program, and we monitor how many patients don't qualify because of their income levels and we always constantly look at whether or not we have that set appropriately for patients who can't afford the medicine. And so we adjust it in time based on the percent of over poverty income to ensure that we're trying to cover the vast majority of those patients. So, you shouldn't have a significant problem with those kinds of patients. Then you look at commercially insured patients, obviously, the industry provides a significant level of co-pay assistance to those patients and so that shouldn't be a challenge. Where the challenge does exist, because these programs are not available broadly to patients on Medicare Part D, is in Medicare Part D. The non-LIS portion of Medicare Part D has very high out-of-pocket costs for medicines, particularly specialty medicines and to sort of put in perspective for you, a Medicare Part D patient, if you compare their out-of-pocket expense to a commercially insured patient, a patient on Medicaid, a patient who isn't Part D, but part of the LIS program, their out-of-pocket expense for something like HUMIRA is a little over 50 times, five-zero times, what it is compared to those other patient populations, which is a pretty significant burden on those patients. And so I think, one of the things, we're trying to drive as we go through this process is, I think, it is the industry's responsibility to help step up and try to cover some of that cost and share some of that with the government to be able to make it affordable for those patients, that is just too high a burden on Medicare patients to be able to afford that. And I think that's the area that you have the greatest challenge from an ability to access these kinds of medicines. And so, we are obviously trying to come up with ways that we can suggest or try to participate in the process to help alleviate that challenge and I think we should be willing to come to the table and help drive that. Now, people say, well, what about the cost associated with that? If you look at the Part D plan and you look at the overall cost, compared to how enrollment has increased over time, I would tell you that the Part D plan has worked extremely well from a competitiveness standpoint, the insurers that negotiate this and the PBMs that negotiated on behalf of the government, drive a pretty hard bargain and you see fairly significant rebating or discounting in this program. I think one of the challenges and I will get to that here in a minute when we talk about rebate. One of the challenges is it would appear most of that rebate is being put back into the premiums, lowering the premiums and so there is this debate, where should that rebate money go back, should it go back against the actual drug costs or should be built back into the premiums and look that's not a decision that we make and I think that is part of where the rebate challenge comes in. Now, as it relates to patients, well, certainly, I think, most of us believe that patient shouldn't be paying against the list price of their substantial rebates. And so the rebate rule as its proposed right now, would allow manufacturers like us to discount at the point-of-sale or point of pharmacy to be able to reflect that and then that would be reflected in what the patient pays. I can tell you we are totally supportive of the patient paying off of the rebated price or the discounted price. I think that is absolutely appropriate. Whether the rebate rule goes through as it is or some modification or doesn't go through at all, look, I can't handicap that. We have analyzed how it would as is currently proposed and as we've said many times, it doesn't affect our business, one way or another, whether it's a rebate or a discount, they are one and the same. And so, I think, we're comfortable with -- if that were to go through, being able to manage our business in a very similar way to the way we manage our business now. I think one of the challenges with Medicare for all would be you'd have to look pretty carefully at this drug benefit, because you would have patients who if they switched off one of those other programs and went on Medicare, at least the way Medicare Part D works right now. Their co-pay out-of-pocket is going to go up dramatically. And I think that's not something that they would necessarily like. So I think that's a significant challenge. But I think one way or another we have to attack that and resolve this. This group making sure that they have good access, affordable access to drugs that they need. Now these are drugs that don't get abused. Now at the end of the day, take a drug like HUMIRA. HUMIRA is step edited has prior authorization. The patient has to fail all the lower cost alternatives before they ever get access to a medicine like HUMIRA. So there is not any real risk of abuse in this kind of a category. And so I think that's something else that's important to put in perspective as we have this debate.